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+--- Thread: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware (/showthread.php?tid=1615)
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - cutty - 2016-01-16
(2016-01-16, 15:06)weatherc Wrote:Quote:.... Any such thing need to be forced from the server-end.....
... yep!.... done to a limited extent already with "interference mode" forced changes in System Red...
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - Bart - 2016-01-17
(2016-01-16, 09:16)kevinmcc Wrote: I was thinking QuickLZ, LZO, LZ4, LZ4-HC, or zlib for the the compression. My first concern would be how much data needs compressed and how much cpu power the Blitzortung receivers have. Would they be able to compress the data fast enough. The second concern is the the power needed to decompress at the server end. I agree some data is not very compressible, some is very easily compressible. I am still waiting for System Blue to launch so I can participate. Having not seen the data myself, I can not judge. Compression may not even be a worth while option.
I see a significant issue with those choices. These compression algorithms only become efficient if you build up data in a buffer for a while. It'd be quite efficient if you would lets say build up data one hour at a time and then all send it in bulk, but that'd delay the detection significantly. While I presume the target is to minimize latency. You really want stream compression algorithms for this sort of job, and there are a few near-ideal cases but these are bad to use in practice for data you *must have* due to their total lack for redundancy. If you're willing to sacrifice a few detections you could probably get away with it though.
(2016-01-16, 12:51)Cutty Wrote: The majority of the data transmitted is 'junk' . High gains, many useless Skywaves and Noise signals, local disturbers (which I am plagued with).
The goal is to eliminate as much junk as possible. Ideally, perhaps, the network would work with stations covering radius of <1000km radius, and not attempting to detect signals in other hemispheres. This requires station density and optimizations. Many stations send too much noise, including mine. As more stations come on line, those such as I will be reducing our antennas and gain settings. Some of those stations are quite clean, in a good environment, and do very well with longer range. Many do not.
There will be a push for smaller antennas and less 'distance' capability, quality of data, etc. Since that is NOT the way the system is envisioned. These are not 'stand alone' systems, but must participate as a 'cell' in a network to be effective.
A local station should normally go interference, and quit transmitting with 'nearby' storms... the rest of the network picks up the data, for example.
The TOA / TOGA system considers the whole pulse train, the frequencies and 'respective energy' contained in the impulse, and not just the discharge pulse timing at trigger, or triggering by 1st or 2nd skywave signal... therefore 'recreating' or 'interpolating' those zero crossing iterations from a 'sampling' would likely result in 'distortion' of the quality control and stroke information. The system wants as much of the complete stroke, with real data, as clean as possible.
If the complete waveform is considered it'd indeed by tricky to decompose the signal into a series of orthogonal symbols unless you'd take the algorithm into account. Though I doubt anyone is insane enough to consider actually doing that one. I suppose more could be gained by introducing filtering to remove local noise and false signals in that case. Then again, a few gigabyte per day on a residential connection isn't really that much anymore in this day and era with 100+ Mbps readily available in many regions... Think it's more of an issue on the receiving server end really these days.
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - David.Gamble - 2016-01-19
I live in central Victoria (Australia) and am some what bandwidth constrained. I keep the gain down but still manage to pick a lot of strokes in the 500 to 1000 km range.
It occurs to me that most of the junk signals are due to powerline noise (50/60 hz), electric fences, UHF military transmissions, and the odd axle welding plant. If the wave form is converted to the frequency domain (FFT) it is very easy to design a very narrow band filter to get rid of the junk. then forward the FFT to the server for processing. I am not sure how this would work with the stroke picking algorithms but it may be worth considering.
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - Tobi - 2016-01-19
The next firmware comes with a simple stream compression (lzfx). It can save about 10-20% data, measured with my station. The compression is done on the whole UDP packet, so it's an additional reducing of size independently from the other methods which affect single signals only. Other implementations mentioned by kevin should do the same. However, some of them need much more memory, like zlib, which needs more memory than the CPU actually has.
Additionally there's now an encoding of each signal which cuts out the noise by transmitting just the min/max amplitude and the length of the noise (3 bytes instead of 64 max.). Of course this is not lossless, we loose some information - but if guessed correctly, it's just noise. It can save up to 90% data but also nothing, if the signal is above the noise level. In thunderstorms there's often just a narrow peak in the middle with nothing than noise before and after. A lot of data would be saved here.
Another encoding which saves the differences of consecutive samples will be added later. It will even work in combination with the noise filter from above.
There are already filters integrated, like the spike filter, which doesn't send signals with just a spike mainly caused by on-board interferences from the digital part. Additionally, signals with too low amplitude won't be transmitted at all.
Of course a filter or an encoding based on deeper signal inspection or FFT would be great, this was the plan since we have System RED. But this needs really much time for testing and research. Additionally our CPU is not fast enough for checking all signals all the time, even with the integrated DSP which can speed up such calculations.
There will be a beta firmware for RED systems with the implementations above very soon.
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - Steph - 2016-01-19
(2016-01-19, 21:20)Tobi Wrote: Additionally there's now an encoding of each signal which cuts out the noise by transmitting just the min/max amplitude and the length of the noise (3 bytes instead of 64 max.).Is this mandatory? I'd like to see my entire signal
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - kevinmcc - 2016-01-20
(2016-01-17, 10:21)Bart Wrote:(2016-01-16, 09:16)kevinmcc Wrote: I was thinking QuickLZ, LZO, LZ4, LZ4-HC, or zlib for the the compression. My first concern would be how much data needs compressed and how much cpu power the Blitzortung receivers have. Would they be able to compress the data fast enough. The second concern is the the power needed to decompress at the server end. I agree some data is not very compressible, some is very easily compressible. I am still waiting for System Blue to launch so I can participate. Having not seen the data myself, I can not judge. Compression may not even be a worth while option.
I see a significant issue with those choices. These compression algorithms only become efficient if you build up data in a buffer for a while. It'd be quite efficient if you would lets say build up data one hour at a time and then all send it in bulk, but that'd delay the detection significantly. While I presume the target is to minimize latency. You really want stream compression algorithms for this sort of job, and there are a few near-ideal cases but these are bad to use in practice for data you *must have* due to their total lack for redundancy. If you're willing to sacrifice a few detections you could probably get away with it though.
You are assuming that you need a large collection of data to build a good dictionary for compression. If you use a predefined dictionary you do not need to time to build a dictionary as is done with typical compression methods. I am going to assume the Blitzertung data is quite predictable, in a predefined format, and good dictionary could be devised ahead of time. With a dictionary predefined the data being sent can be compressed and sent much quicker while still be very efficient in both time and size.
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - Tobi - 2016-01-20
@Steph: During the testing phase the compression/encoding can only be enabled by the server, otherwise we might get into trouble if something does not work as expected. Later we should have some configuration option for each station where the user can decide between "traffic saving", "standard" and "whole signals". The server will try to respect this decision unless there are no important (temporarily) reasons for a different method.
Regarding compression: We have almost only binary data and no repetitions and stream compression is not very efficient with such data. It's nice to have this compression, but it's not that important. The current solution is extremely simple and so far it seems to work well.
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - Steph - 2016-01-20
Delta encoding is also simple and no signal is lost
Example signal from my station:
First row is the raw signal, second row the delta, third row the delta-delta. After the first two samples, 4 bits per sample are enough in this case (not just in this cutout, but in the entire signal). Plus you can still run it through zlib afterwards.
Code:
101
98 -3
97 -1 2
96 -1 0
98 2 3
101 3 1
106 5 2
112 6 1
120 8 2
128 8 0
137 9 1
145 8 -1
153 8 0
159 6 -2
163 4 -2
165 2 -2
166 1 -1
166 0 -1
163 -3 -3
160 -3 0
156 -4 -1
151 -5 -1
146 -5 0
140 -6 -1
135 -5 1
130 -5 0
126 -4 1
122 -4 0
118 -4 0RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - Tobi - 2016-01-21
@Steph: Of course the delta encoding will be added. I hope very soon. :-)
RE: Decrease data usage with Blue hardware - Toxic - 2016-01-22
(2016-01-12, 22:32)Tobi Wrote: Hi,
yes, the high amount of traffic is an issue that we want to solve, i.e. by transmitting only usable data/channels. There's currently work in progress. It's independent from the system (RED/BLUE) as it's only related to the data transmission. A new (beta) firmware will be out very soon which will address even more issues. Please be patient.
Best regards
Tobias
I'd like to see this, I have a Sophos UTM as my Firewall which gives pretty good stats on all my network devices. Would like to see what new firmware can give in lowering data transmission, not that its even an issue for me