Launch of System Blue delayed

[Hacklzwerg]

Hi There!


OK...

BLUE is delayed..
But why can't i buy a RED????

Why isn't it possible to reissue RED??
i'm able to solder SMD's and i'm able to get the needed parts...
cause i'm an electronic engineer and i can access the appropriate soldering tools....

so...  why do I have to wait such a long time (since March) to get a running system....


or in other words:

Why don't you "opensource" Gerber Data and schematics of your old systems...
and look what's getting better....


Stefan

[Knickohr]

Hi !
We have no PCBs left.

Thomas

[Hacklzwerg]

Hi Knickohr

comparing the people understanding Gerber Date with all the other they are the minority
and the 0,1 percent understanding Gerber... are they interested in flashes?????
The ownly answer of yours:  No more PCB's



That´s all??


Any "no name" PCB Manufacturer will do this job.......

remember my last words:

or in other words:

Why don't you "opensource" Gerber Data and schematics of your old systems...
and look what's getting better....

[Bonzo]

I guess only very few people would spend time and money on building system "Red". There have been a couple of opportunities to buy one from people that wanted to get rid of it in favour of "Blue".

(I also guess a lot of people that plea for "Blue" will get of if they see the price.)

Did you read the available documentation before comming up with the idea of 'open-source' and making your own hardware?

[kevinmcc]

I think there maybe more people willing to spend time and money to building system "Red", but we just need boards.

I'd build a system red.

[whpenner]

Hi,

There are a lot of folks who would like to participate in this project. Unfortunately, there isn't a way for folks to do this. Development on the blue board is taking a really long time and no red systems are available. I expect as in any group project, the folks who have boards are happy and doing their own thing. Those that don't are getting very frustrated and are looking elsewhere for sensor boards. I fall into this group. If there was a competing system being set up, I would jump on it in a second and never look back.

This looks like a typical group project - there isn't any real motivation to get a board out. It's really the development of a new board and getting lots of attention over that effort that many folks like. But because if you are in the 'in' crowd, you have what you want. There is little motivation to really complete a project - this is a classic issue with 'open source' type projects.

I've been watching this site for a long time waiting - and I see continuous messages about wait, wait, wait... not yet, wait... blah, blah, blah. Again, classic. I expect that this is well into the end of the project because next, it will collapse under it's own weight. Note that a business is motivated to get products out because they count on additional sales to keep going. That's what this team is missing.

So, I'll watch for a few more weeks and then give up forever with this team. Of course, if anybody is starting up a different project, let me know. I would be excited to join.

Bill

[zalama]

Hi,

There are a lot of folks who would like to participate in this project.  Unfortunately, there isn't a way for folks to do this.  Development on the blue board is taking a really long time and no red systems are available.  I expect as in any group project, the folks who have boards are happy and doing their own thing.  Those that don't are getting very frustrated and are looking elsewhere for sensor boards.  I fall into this group.  If there was a competing system being set up, I would jump on it in a second and never look back.

This looks like a typical group project - there isn't any real motivation to get a board out.  It's really the development of a new board and getting lots of attention over that effort that many folks like.  But because if you are in the 'in' crowd, you have what you want.  There is little motivation to really complete a project - this is a classic issue with 'open source' type projects.

I've been watching this site for a long time waiting - and I see continuous messages about wait, wait, wait... not yet, wait... blah, blah, blah.  Again, classic.  I expect that this is well into the end of the project because next, it will collapse under it's own weight.  Note that a business is motivated to get products out because they count on additional sales to keep going.  That's what this team is missing.

So, I'll watch for a few more weeks and then give up forever with this team.  Of course, if anybody is starting up a different project, let me know.  I would be excited to join.

Bill

What about this one ?
http://forum.astrogenic.com/viewforum.php?f=16

[weatherc]

I have to agree with some of the earlier posters.

One of the most frustating things are the (total) lack of boards. What longer it goes increases also the need of replacement parts within current participants (including myself). My station have been offline for monts and with no replacement parts (and no System Blue in sight) will it probably be so forever. There should at least be replacement parts available for Red. 

I would say the real "break even" will be next winter/early spring, if there are no System Blue out then (not just "released soon") so its possible to get online before next season will many many give up and move forward.

[Bonzo]

Here's already a contradiction: One (potential future) user claims that he can get all the parts by himself and a (real) user says that he isn't possible to get a spare part.

So imagine what will happen if the guys offer boards and at the end it seems that vital components are obsolete ...

[cutty]

The Blitzortung Project is an 'on going' project to realize a 'volunteer based' system for lightning detection... a term used widely, at least in the United States is the phrase, "Citizen Scientists'...
Blitzortung is NOT a company or corporation.
...not a Government Project.
...not an explicit 'Open Source' Project.
...not a system for 'lightning warning' or insurance claims...
etc...
The data is not for commercial use.
Blitzortung is classed as "Hobbyist".
The design and production of kits is not, and won't be "crowd sourced".

The intitial production and development is supported by three main developers who invest their time, money, resources as they are able, in order to follow a series of "steps" toward a goal... beginning with original simple receivers, the Greens in several variations, progressing to the Red in a couple of variations, and now the next phase will be the "Blue" syustem, likely in several stages.

The system servers are supported by casual advertising on the two websites, and money out of pocket... as are the builds and production of initial system kits. The algorithms and processing are mostly proprietary and it is extremely unlikely they will ever be open sourced.
Development and design are accomplished when the developers have time available in their busy lives and careers.

Valuable lessons involving signal detection and processing, logistics, etc, were learned in 2014 with an unprecedented demand for systems worldwide.  Keep in mind this project originally began as a concept in 2002 or 2003, thereabouts... The growth and logistical surprise of 2014 exhausted the RED supplies, including at least one GPS chip that was preferred, but supplies were exhausted, though a sub was available.

New operating principles and suggestions were discovered with the Greens and the Reds, which are being incorporated into Blue.  So much so that the Green systems will not provide adequate data, such as the RED and Blue are capable of.  Though RED will likely be viable for many years down the road, the Best of Red and other features will be incorporated into Blue. And by rough count, the receiver portion of BLUE has been through about 4 major (if you will) revisions and polishing since January.  This system will be slick.

RED and Green required an operator with electronic skills to build.  Blue will require much less background, but will still require a technical skill level of some degree, depending on which intermediate versions might, or might not, be released prior to the 'completed' more advanced system release... . And if there are intermediate releases, don't expect them to be equivalent to the final concept.  In my opinion such demands for release dates, etc might push the developers to that end, and the 'intermediates' might be somewhat disappointing to some of us 'purists'... just a thought.

To be seeking a re-run and re-release of RED systems would be like demanding a return to B&W 6mhz TV.  The organizational resources must be turned to BLUE, and further design and improvements in the processing servers.

As far as replacement parts....
You might have trouble getting the original GPS module, from what I understand, and have to do with a different version.... perhaps with a feature missing.
The PDF document contains lists of virtually all of the parts required... however some are quite specific... for example the specially chosen LED on the E field preamplifier.
Yes,... the boards themselves were last produced a year ago.

If you have contacted Egon about replacement parts for RED through the address on the 'contact' page of the website, and he's informed you that part isn't on hand, then that's the way it is.
On the other hand, it's possible that the required parts ARE on hand, and if so he will do his best to get them to you. At last report he did have some odds and ends.
We have sucessfully repaired several stations in the United States with locally available parts, including mine, though my repair was minor.
But the last complete kits available for 'general' distribution were prepared and distributed last year!

The developers in Europe have jobs, families, and lives outside of this project, and devote, probably, too much time and effort to it,. Please give them a break!
This is a "science project" of the hobby class, not a money-making plug-and-play gadget,.  The data is viable... accurate when all the rules observed, and fun.  The coming system(s) will be even more so if the developers are allowed to pursue peacefully.
 
Cheers!
Mike

[kevinmcc]

BLUE has been through about 4 major (if you will) revisions and polishing since January.  This system will be slick.

In my opinion such demands for release dates, etc might push the developers to that end, and the 'intermediates' might be somewhat disappointing to some of us 'purists'... just a thought.
 
Cheers!
Mike

We're not demanding a fixed release dates, but rather requesting a moving rough ETA as BLUE is being developed.

I totally understand that rigid release date does put stress on developers and also makes the final product not a good as it could possible be.

But when told Spring or Summer, with not much info to follow and now into Fall, the development appears dead.

Now knowing there have been 4 or so major revision since January, that is amazing news.

If this news was posted before and I missed that, I apologize.

But that is the kind of information others and myself want to be hearing.

Even without an ETA, an update here or there, a brief tidbit of information with developer's thoughts on progress and changes in revisions as they happen would be wonderful.

Just a little info goes a very long way.

[cutty]

BLUE has been through about 4 major (if you will) revisions and polishing since January.  This system will be slick.

In my opinion such demands for release dates, etc might push the developers to that end, and the 'intermediates' might be somewhat disappointing to some of us 'purists'... just a thought.
 
Cheers!
Mike

Now knowing there have been 4 or so major revision since January, that is amazing news.
..........this would be dealing with basics, 'potential' add ins, etc... not counting controller... the development has been  involved. Especially since a lot of time and energy has also been spent on server upgrades, quality of current data, etc.. outside of the Blue development.
If this news was posted before and I missed that, I apologize.
and the above 'approximation' would not have been on the 'public' forum, or even in a post specifically, far as I know.
You didn't miss anything as 'approximately specific'     as that...  No apology necessary.

But that is the kind of information others and myself want to be hearing.

Even without an ETA, an update here or there, a brief tidbit of information with developer's thoughts on progress and changes in revisions as they happen would be wonderful.
I definitely agree with you!

Just a little info goes a very long way.

[Knickohr]

Fully agree with Mike !

Thomas

[DelandeC]

+1 Mike !

Clement 

[Eric.Wouters]

just a little more on this. Things evolve though some are hardly visible to most

My station is in the south of France and east of me there is a 'huge' military transmitter (submarine comm, 410m antenna and god knows what power but I guess a few megawatt) that was literally blocking any detection in that direction.  I couldn't 'see' any strike in Italy ....

One day that problem disappeared with no reason (and  I can't imagine the french military closing down that kind of emitter, they only have 3 in France capable of worldwide comm with subs)

What most probably happened is that the devs analysed over some months the problem I had with  all other stations around me and finally coded some algorithm to eliminate this, as the signal was on a constant frequency it wasn't to hard to imagine a software filter

I never ever saw any public statement of this 'improvement' but since .. I detect strikes way past Turkey ..... 

This kind of collaborative efforts are involving many thing, some visible, some less and some hardly ... but it's the complete set that makes it work. It's not so hard to  imagine a new station but it has to be compatible with the existing detections, the servers behind have to be able to cope with the different systems and still produce a reliable result and over time improve ... else it can stay as is ... it works pretty nicely. But no, they decided to improve ... and possible by backwards compatibility with our actual systems.  Though slowly older systems will become obsolete as the new results will most probably way better ....

[orion_jb2001]

I am starting to smell a rat.........

[DavidEA]

With the delay of System Blue, is there any chance of opening up the data to people who pledge to add to the network when it becomes available?

I'm interested in the electronics side, but I really want to get my hands on that lovely, lovely data.

[John.Sacrey]

With the delay of System Blue, is there any chance of opening up the data to people who pledge to add to the network when it becomes available?

I'm interested in the electronics side, but I really want to get my hands on that lovely, lovely data.

Hi,

Access to the data is granted after you have a completed station that is sending data to the network. To my knowledge, there aren't any exceptions to this. The data is not to be used for commercial purposes and/or monetary gain.


John

[DavidEA]

With the delay of System Blue, is there any chance of opening up the data to people who pledge to add to the network when it becomes available?

I'm interested in the electronics side, but I really want to get my hands on that lovely, lovely data.

Hi,

Access to the data is granted after you have a completed station that is sending data to the network. To my knowledge, there aren't any exceptions to this. The data is not to be used for commercial purposes and/or monetary gain.


John

Hi John

It's not for monetary gain, I'm an armchair stormchaser/GIS/data junkie.

I can understand the restriction of only allowing participants to access the data as it promotes more people to set up stations.  Given the delay of system blue and the unavailability of red, I was hoping they would review that policy as an interim measure.  They could even give a grace period of a couple of months after blue's release and then remove access to anyone not participating in the network.

Cheers

David

[davmoo]

As far as replacement parts....
You might have trouble getting the original GPS module, from what I understand, and have to do with a different version.... perhaps with a feature missing.
The PDF document contains lists of virtually all of the parts required... however some are quite specific... for example the specially chosen LED on the E field preamplifier.
Yes,... the boards themselves were last produced a year ago.

Before I get started with the "real" part of my post, let me apologize in advance if I come off sounding like a jerk. Especially in a first post    I have nothing but respect for the developers of the project, and am truly amazed that they have put together a system of this magnitude as a purely volunteer effort without corporate or institutional funding. I also don't blame them for not open sourcing their software and algorithms. That's the product of their blood, sweat, and tears. And if anyone is ever going to get filthy rich off of that work, it should be them and not some corporate entity that found it on the internet and ran with it with no real work involved.

While sitting here tonight waiting for a large upload to happen, I went through the Red system PDF and checked the parts lists one component at t time. I can source every part needed, including the specified GPS module and LEDs, except for one part...the PC boards. (Note: I'm in the US. Outside of North America it may be harder to source everything, I honestly don't know.)

I agree totally that the developers should be focused on the development of Blue, and going back and recreating kits for Red is a massive step backwards and a major waste of their probably very limited time and money. But Gerber files for the Red boards sure would be nice.

David